**Updated 3/16/09**
I would never have self-identified as someone who was 'too outspoken' ... outspoken, yes, but *too* outspoken? I would never have pegged myself as someone to be viewed as a threat of any kind. I try to treat others with kindness, encouragement, and love. I try to treat others as I'd prefer to be treated. However, if someone treats me unkindly, that doesn't mean I respond with anger and vitriol. I prefer to let respond with kindness or at least civility and then let those people alone. I don't need to add to their misery and suffering, because there's obviously something like that under the surface.
So it was a shock for me to find out I'm too radical for Ravelry.
Oh, how to begin?
Yesterday I got up with the pups ... fed 'em, gave Vi her
pill (she's up to 1.5 in the a.m. and 1 in the evening to keep her seizures at
bay) and sat down to do some blogging. Did that, then went to check with my
friends at The Bunker. But first, I logged onto Ravelry.com, which was
commonplace ... I check both places daily. But there was a problem when I went
to log on at Ravelry ... I was redirected to an error page that said
simply:
Error 403 - Forbidden
No warning, no nuthin' .... I'm too conservative for
Ravelry, but that's OK with me. I'll wear it as a badge of honor. I was getting
more and more disillusioned with the cesspool anyway.
For those that haven't been keeping up, Ravelry used to be
just a fiber arts community-type website. It has morphed into a site with
"groups" for everything from people who like certain TV shows, to
those who have particular affection for their pets or their pet cause, to
people proud of their ethnic, religious, or political affiliations ... to those
that proudly proclaim themselves to be Lazy, Stupid & Godless (a.k.a.
"LSG") ... their parents must be ever so proud. There's even a group
that calls themselves "Ravelry Rubberneckers" (a.k.a. "RR")
who supposedly try not to antagonize people in other groups by actually
participating in said groups ... instead, they direct their friends and
co-horts to whatever groups has come to their attention through various means
... and then they make fun of the people involved in their own group's
discussion pages. Nice, huh?.
The Bunker wasn't originally "The Bunker" ... it
was originally a group started on Ravelry.com started by good friend and Bunker
Babe EllieJane, who'd been "textually harassed" in a supposedly
conservative group by moderators who were supposedly conservatives but
preferred to side with liberal trolls over active *truly* conservative members
... they are the ones that chased me out of the group, too. I tried to blend in
at the GOP knitters group, but it wasn't a very active group, and I refused to
go back into the Conservative Knitters group because it had been made clear to
me that I just didn't belong there ... I guess I wasn't the right brand of
conservative for them. Y'see, I'm what I call a "triple-threat"
conservative ... I'm a political, fiscal and social conservative. Some people
are uncomfortable with that, and I let 'em be. But they didn't let me be, and
they didn't let EllieJane be, so she started up her new group and invited me
over to play.
Our new group (which later became The Bunker) was devoted to
supporters of John McCain in his (failed) bid for the presidency. Many of us
had supported others, but when it became apparent that McCain had the blessing
of the Republican "powers that be", we decided to do what we could to
support the man ... mostly because we knew what a disaster Barack Obama
could/would be, and it was apparent that the way was being made clear for
Obama....McCain was going to need all the help he could get.
In EllieJane's McCain group, we started getting other people
joining ... some who'd been dissatisfied with the Conservative Knitters, some
who enjoyed the GOP Knitters but were also looking for a more active group to
play in. Some members came to us who'd initially been Obama supporters ...
until they started to really *listen* to what he was saying ... some had been
Hillary Clinton supporters, but became dissatisfied with the Dems because they
treated her so but treated Obama as if he were (to quote AllyKatt) a 'special
snowflake'. MyDailyFiber quickly made a name for herself in our group and
endeared herself to all members not only with her wit, common sense and unique
perspective, but also her ability to churn our pro-McCain "Ravatars".
She also became the second Moderator pretty quickly, and was such a help to
EllieJane that I can't even describe it.
(For those unaware of "avatars", those are the
little pictures that often get associated with a username, so people can
connect a "face" with a "name" even though you're likely
using a nickname instead of your real name and most people don't put their real
faces out there for security and/or self-esteem reasons -- many use pictures of
our pets, a favorite TV character, a symbol, or something that means something
to us.)
When John McCain chose Sarah Palin as his choice for the VP
bid, we were *very* enthusiastic, and gained members in droves! Soon we became
a haven for over 600 members. We also became a convenient target for
"trolls" ... those who naturally disagreed with us, but who felt the
need to "educate" and "enlighten" us ... we poor,
unfortunate, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, McCain supporters ... we were
often painted with the broad brushes of fascism, Nazi-ism, neo-con-ism,
bigotry/racism, class-ism, and just about any other "ism" you could
name.
I looked long and hard at what my friends and I were tarred
with, but you see, I didn't think it could stick, because the "isms"
thrown at us seemed to me to be a classic case of psychological projection ...
in which the person hurling the invectives is doing the very action of which
they're accusing you ... except you're not the one engaged in the objectionable
action ... but they can't be honest and admit it's them doing it, so it must be
the horrible "other".
At one point, EllieJane had to go on vacation or some such
thing, and she asked me to step up and be one of the substitute moderators
while she was gone. She never removed me from Mod status, but I rarely got to
"see any action" ... the other moderators ranged from Eastern time to
Central time, and here I was out in the lovely Pacific North-Wet ... sometimes
it would be just TammyKnits and me keeping the board "active" at 8:30
and later (Pacific time) ... and we'd shout out to AllyKatt who would be up at
10:30 our time (12:30 hers) ... I still don't know how she could keep those
hours and function, but then again, I feel like I'm getting old.
Anyway, on to 'seeing action' ... As the campaign season
wore on, we got more and more troll activity. EJ, MDF, AllyKatt and the others
instituted the best possibly policy in dealing with trolls ... the theory is,
if someone comes into your living room and (pardon me) craps in the middle of
the floor, you don't just leave it there to stink up the place ... you clean it
up and move on. Likewise, our moderators simply deleted troll posts. They tried
not to engage trolls in any way ... just delete, ignore, and move on.
Trolls don't like this. They are special snowflakes and
mustn't be ignored when they so much with which to beat
you over the head enlighten and educate you. "Resistance is
futile," they seem to think. "You *will* be assimilated, whether you
agree with us or not, so just give in already!"
I tried to check in most mornings before work (yep, it caused
me to get there closer and closer to 8:00 instead of 7:45 as I normally did). I
often tried to check in during lunch (eating at my desk, ducking behind it if I
saw a client coming up the walk --- no, wait, we're closed at lunchtime outside
of tax season), and I spent many evening hours.
Because I'm on Pacific time, however, and the huge majority
of our members seemed to be from the other three time zones, by the time I
checked in at lunch, trolls had been taken care of, drama-poo had been dealt
with and cleaned up, and I got to see the aftermath.
As the election cycle came to a close, we got more and more
negative attention. Now let me set this straight....for the most part, our
members refrained from most profanity ... the majority of us don't care for it,
and our membership respected that. We were not, however, politically correct.
Political correctness is the anathema of free speech. We did NOT allow racism,
sexism, or what most people with common sense would consider hateful. We did,
however, allow our members to equate BHO with a socialist, as his own words and
actions had confirmed this to us. We did allow our members to speculate and
lament on the fact that BHO has spent in the realm of $1M in covering up
whether he's a natural-born citizen ... it would've cost less than $20 for a
duplicate of the "vault copy" of his birth certificate ... you can
figure that one out on your own, I'm sure. We did allow our members to be
sassy, sarcastic, and lean toward "snark" ... I'm sorry, but polite
drawing room conversations concerning "the weather and everyone's
health" (c'mon, what movie is that from?) just didn't suit a group geared
to discussing politics ... after all, in polite conversation don't you avoid
religion and politics?
As we got more and more unwanted attention from
"opposition groups" such as LSG & RR, we got unwarranted
"flags" on posts, claiming bigotry, racism, hate speech ... I saw the
posts that were flagged, and I saw the "reasons" for said flags ...
apart from a couple (mostly from new members who didn't "get" the
group yet and hadn't read our rules) they were spurious at best ... anything
truly flag-worthy was deleted and the member who'd posted it was "talked
to" by a moderator. We continually cautioned our members about
"feeding the trolls" we tried to self-censor as best we could without
stifling conversation and reasonable free speech. Many of us had left the
Conservative Knitters group under more and more stringent dictates of "you
can't say that", and we didn't want the same thing happening in the McCain
group.
Actually, we asked for help before the election was ever
over. Because of some of the vile and offensive pictures that showed up on
ravatars (boob fondling, crotch shots, nekkid parts ... and this on a site
where someone's children might walk up behind them at any moment, not to
mention the minor-age members, and see this stuff -- not a family friendly site
... oh and the language on some of the boards would make sailors and truck
drivers embarrassed!... but I digress) the site owner *finally* gave the
users tools to hide offensive ravatars, including simple hiding of the picture
or a "green" cover with which you could replace the ravatar of those
with whom you disagree (which we gave the term "disagreening"). During
the last two weeks of the election cycle, the owner actually took away rights
to click on "buttons" indicating "love",
"disagree", "funny", "educational" and
"interesting" because of the drama it caused ... we actually had
trolls pile on, clicking "funny" in droves, when a member talked
about her mother's death. Nice. Right.
And then Barack Hussein Obama was elected.
Yep, we lamented, cried, sighed, complained and shared with
our members. The same people who couldn't "get over it" when Bush won
two elections now screamed, cajoled, nagged and berated us to 'get over it,
already' and embrace Barack Obama. We wouldn't and continued to discuss amongst
ourselves our fears, concerns, and suspicions and decided that the group should
be renamed. (Well, McCain lost, so The McCain Ravelry didn't fit anymore, now
did it?)
We decided to "hunker down" and retreat to the
safety of the bunker, similar to what the president would do when faced with
danger. The McCain Ravelry was renamed "The Bunker".
... and the trolls came out to play.
"That's a Nazi reference" was the accusation ...
apparently these people didn't get out much or read much more than Mother
Jones, The Nation, The Rolling Stone or whatever communist rag is printed in
their local towns. They simply didn't get the idea that a "bunker" is
a place of safety.
Could we ever be left in peace? Nope! We were no longer
touting our support (albeit reluctant, in some cases) for John McCain, and
wished the trolls would just leave us alone. That's really all we wanted. We wanted
to be left alone to enjoy each other's like-minded company. We (and by the
collective "we", I mean the other moderators) begged help from
Ravelry's owner to keep the trolls at bay. We asked for tools to ban trolls who
spuriously flagged posts, or to at least restrict non-member use of the
buttons.
Nuthin' ... no help at all ... the site owner was getting
angrier and angrier at "the time he had to
In January of this year, things started getting hairier and hairier
... there were times when I dreaded checking in at lunch time, dreading seeing
the number of PMs (private messages) which nearly always signaled some
troll-caused drama. Sometimes a few of the PMs would be from members who asked
me to clarify what was going on ... y'see, while the other Mods dealt with
trolls, I often got to be "mom" to some that trusted me ... and I got
to be "mom" when I saw statements by members that needed to be
modified. I'd PM the member and ask them to edit their posts and give reasons
why, including "PLEASE don't give them any ammunition to use against
us!" I also would publically remind members not to make blanket statements
against "all liberals" because several of our most treasured member
had been quite liberal at one time and still had liberal leanings, but that
we'd all come together out of concerns for more conservative values than what
Barack Obama espoused. Yep, no drama for me, but peace making ... works for me.
But because I missed the troll-post deletions I often wondered what had
happened, and sometimes felt like I wasn't a 'real' moderator. Oh well ...
enough about me.
In mid-February, after a particularly "dramatic"
couple of weeks, I signed on at lunch, not more than 20 minutes after the site
owner had given *one* moderator (AllyKatt, our most active moderator) notice
that The Bunker would be shut down in 24 hours and that those of us who'd been
moderators in The Bunker would no longer be allowed to Mod *any*
politically-themed group. He was done with us, tired of fighting with us and
those that simply couldn't let us alone, and was dispensing with the drama. Of
course, I'm paraphrasing ... but instead of blaming it on the content of the
group and our expressed opinions, he blamed it on the moderators, saying we didn't
take care of problems fast enough, allowed our members to use hate speech, etc.
(Explain to me how someone saying Sarah Palin should be
raped with a hockey stick and that President Bush and Vice President should be
shot, hung, or pushed over cliffs is *not* hate speech, but mentioning a scarf
Obama was wearing *was* hate speech ... because the individual who made the
comment about the scarf was from Mississippi!!! Let me be clear about this ...
we have many members from many varied ethic groups, and none of them complained
about racism or hate speech, and they *knew* they could take *anything* to the
moderators and listened to seriously...if they didn't have a problem with the
speech there, there *was* no problem with the speech there. But again, I digress...)
.......
Update: I received clarification of the "scarf incident" from the person who made the original comment:
To
clarify, I made the comment and it was NOT about a scarf Obama was
wearing. Obama was not mentioned or even alluded to, at all. It was
a reference to a thread in one of the "Big Six", entitled
"Inagural Scarves", on inauguration day. When I saw that
title, I mistakenly assumed it was about some sort of KAL [knit along] of scarves that
people were going to do during the day-long inauguration television
fest. That thread was, in fact, comments on some of the pretty
scarves that were televised on people at the inauguration -- Michelle O's
mother was one, I think. (I didn't open the thread until later to take a
look.) I didn't open any Big Six threads to read that day, because we
were all hunkering down, depressed, in the Bunker -- to console each
other. I didn't watch the inauguration, so I haven't a clue as to what
Obama or anyone wore -- scarf or no scarf.
While
talking in the Bunker I made the comment, and even prefaced it with the
clarification that it was HUMOR, saying something like, "On a
humorous note," at the beginning. Then I said I unbelievably saw a
thread title in the big six that said "Inaugural
Scarves". My comment was that we called them nooses". NooseSSSS... plural. The reference, which
obviously was lost on some people, was that WE were sick enough over his
election to hang ourselves. How can PLURAL nooses be construed as a
lynching threat on the president?
The
comment, which I now sorely regret (you have no idea!) has been so twisted
that I think our own Bunkermates forget that it originally was NO reference to
Obama or anything he was wearing. I kept my eyes and ears OFF
the inauguration that day, so I neither heard nor saw Obama.
Anyway, just wanted to clarify that to you. I'm sure I'll be doing this sort of thing til the day I die...
....
So, we said our goodbyes, verbally hugged each other,
"friended" each other (that's the only way some less active members
realized something was up, when they received six to ten friend requests within
an hour's time), expressed our sadness (some expressed outrage ... and none too
kindly), and we Mods tried to keep things calm. Trolls came in to gloat,
gleefully poking at the open wound, expressing "the king is finally dead,
hurrah!" kind of sentiments you'd expect to have come from the peasants during
the French Revolution.
Why were we such a threat? Did we really worry them that
much? Were they so concerned that someone might actually look at current events
without looking through the liberal filter and maybe get an inkling that not
all's green in Oz? We had had several people who came in seriously looking to
understand where we came from ... and left with a new perspective to consider.
The majority of non-members came in with the threats of playground bullies ...
some came in with relief at finally finding a "safe haven on Ravelry"
where they could talk with like-minded ladies (mostly) without having to walk
on verbal eggshells for fear of getting piled on by the liberals on that board.
So ... our group got dissolved ... the Great Bunker Eviction
... some of us looked to other more conservative groups on the site and were
told in not so many words (and in some cases *in* so many words) that we and
our attitudes and expressions weren't wanted. Sometimes it was because the
"flavor" of the group tended toward the more genteel discussion and
expressions, which is fine and understandable (the Bunker had it's own flavor,
too) but sometimes it was expressed more as a concern that we'd bring the
trolls with us ... some of those trolls are cyber stalkers, don't ya know ...
and cause them to get shut down. Some of the members of the other boards didn't
want false rumors started about them (someone started a rumor that one of our
members had threatened the life of the site owners' dog ... which the site owner has confirmed to AllyKatt, one of our members, that said threat was actually a bogus rumor -- but he refuses to make that particular bit of information public "because the incident was on an off-site venue") and some were concerned
that they'd become the objects of scorn and threats (EllieJane, our group's
founder, received a threat against her children from someone who'd done their
research and found out where she lived).
MyDailyFiber had the forethought to start an off-site board
where we could go to express our more controversial opinions (read, troll
magnets, opinions not welcome by the liberal majority on Ravelry). She paid
for it out of her own funds. When it was mentioned to the site owner, he
expressed that he was glad we had someplace where we could express ourselves
without opposition groups getting involved. When we were Evicted, someone had
the grace to give me an invitation to join there.
We re-grouped and tried to figure out how we could gather on
Ravelry, hang out together and stay under the radar. Many/most made pledges to
stay away from *any* of the political groups.
AllyKatt made a group where we could discuss the read-along
of "Atlas Shrugged", which she had been recommending for some time,
and which I've heartily recommended here myself.
One member made a group called Dutch's Reading Room, which
was to be strictly a site where we could post links to articles on both a
national and state scale for things we found concerning ... and on which we
could read some of the great quotes made by Ronald "Dutch" Reagan.
One member made a group in which we expressed our
appreciation for The Noodle (a.k.a. KnittinNoodle, one of our sassiest and most
outspoken members).
Someone else (I think it was AllyKatt) made a group for fans
of Alfonzo Rachelle, a.k.a. Machosauce. She was told that she couldn't moderate
that group. It wasn't a political group. It's fans of a conservative
individual, but the site owner stripped her of her moderator status there, too.
What happened in these groups, you ask?'
The Conservative Knitters, GOP Knitters, Sarah Palin, Rush
Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity fan groups got a sudden uptick in troll activity,
which I assume died down when Bunker Babes forced themselves to sit on their hands
and *not* participate.
Lessee ... Dutch's Reading Room was mostly left alone,
'cause people didn't really express many opinions in there.
The Noodle group was immediately infiltrated by trolls who
couldn't leave well enough alone ... but "just happened" to find a
group filled with former Bunker Babes ... no, they don't stalk
conservatives/Bunker Babes, now do they?
The "Atlas Shrugged" discussion group,
"Galt's Gulch", was immediately infiltrated by trolls who just *had*
to become members in a group filled with Bunker Babes ... no, no stalking
there. AllyKatt had the presence of mind to lock the group, delete all the
troll posts and wait it out until she could figure out specific group
guidelines (rules). Only through direct negotiations was she able to keep her
moderator status on this group.
So, that pretty much brings us up to yesterday when I was
banned ... along with almost all the other Bunker Babes ... because many of us
had changed our usernames and avatars, we rarely knew when we were in the presence
of a "friend", so someone on the off-site board suggested we add a designation
to our ravatars so we'd recognize each other.
Within a week, we were booted. Some people got the
403-Forbidden screen, and others were taken to a screen that said "Your
account has been suspended until further notice. Contact
[email protected]." Later in the day, some of those initially suspended
had been further redirected to the 403-Forbidden screen. Personally, I'm
thinking that we'll all be permanently banned, and that being
"suspended" is only temporary until they can get everyone's accounts
permanently banned. The site owner cites this as his reasoning:
A group of users have been
organizing together on another website and visiting Ravelry directly from it,
disrupting normal site activities. All users of that particular site have had
their Ravelry accounts (including any duplicate accounts) suspended until
further notice. This is a serious action that we felt needed to be done to
protect the Ravelry community.
All inquiries can be directed to
[email protected].
Yes, we've been gathering at another website, and yes, we
sometimes clicked a link to see what a member had taken issue with ... but
there have rarely been more than 20 Bunker Babes on our off-site board at any
one time. Even if those 20 people clicked on a given link, how could those 20
hits "disrupt" anything? Don't website owners normally *want* more
hits on their site, driving up their stats??
"This is a serious action that
we felt needed to be done to protect the Ravelry community."
From what??? From independent thought, from people who
refrain (for the most part) from the profanity, licentiousness, glee in
perversion that our "opposition" expressed??? Give .
Me . A . Freaking . Break!!!
The problem is that, while some of our members didn't get
banned, some innocents were swept up in this dragnet along with the rest of us.
It seems to have been people from whose computer a member might've logged onto
Ravelry. In some cases, it's a family member who's also been a
"Raveler" and shares a wireless hub on a home network, but has never
been to The Bunker. In some cases, it's been paying advertisers. In some cases
it's been designers who sell their fiber arts patterns. In some cases it's
grandmothers whose granddaughter was a Bunker Babe.
The site owner has prevented members from getting onto
Ravelry and deleting their personal information. In some cases, there were
purchases pending, and the seller has no idea if she will get the money. We're
talking about intellectual property being held hostage ... if it were a
conservative site that had done this to liberals, you *know* there would be
Hell to pay! There would be such a hue and cry that it would be all over the
Net and the Lamestream media.
The Hubby made a good observation ... E-Harmony.com was
forced to accommodate gays & lesbians that wanted to use the matching
service. Shouldn't a site like Ravelry.com try to remember the lessons learned
there. Yes, it's a free site, which constitutes "his sand box" ...
but if you're going to allow free speech, shouldn't *all* speech be acceptable,
not just that with which one agrees?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The site owner claims to have over 300K members on Ravelry
... of course, this doesn't account for duplicate accounts (which are
supposedly forbidden, but which are very prolific) or those accounts that have
gone inactive because the site owner refuses to delete them because he
"doesn't have the tools to do that" ... some of those inactive users
left because of disgust at the behavior and language exhibited ... some left
because the site just wasn't for them/wasn't a good fit ... but have the
membership numbers been changed to reflect this? I doubt it ... perhaps he's
hoping to sell the site to some investor when it "comes out of beta"
... would an investor want to buy a site with inflated member numbers? I don't
know that's the case, but if I were an investor or an advertiser, I'd look long and hard at
whether this was a good place for people to hang out. I'd hate to be an advertiser and suddenly not have access to the site.
Parents, take heed and protect your underage fiber
enthusiasts from what they will see on this site without warning. And if you
are interested in using Ravelry yourself, be aware that objectionable content
can/may/will pop with no warning whatsoever. If you're easily offended, this
site is not for you. If you don't mind nekkid/obscene yarn creations, foul
language, celebration of just about everything under the sun (and I mean
*everything*), then you're welcome to it. I won't be going back. There are
plenty of other places to find crochet patterns & supplies ... and I have
plenty of Bunker Babe friends who either dye and spin yarn or who have friends
that do. I'll be fine.
As you were ........
Other posts regarding the Banning of the Big Bad Bunker Babes are listed below (I forgot to write everyone's names down as I cut & pasted the blog addresses ... sorry, ladies!):
Our Side of the Story -- EllieJane
More Ravelry Censorship -- KnittyHorse
Woo Hoo, I'm a Bad Person! -- Chrisknits
Well, This Is a New Experience for Me
Censorship in America -- Whimzee
Former Bunker Members Banned from Ravelry? -- YarnKandy
Wow. It's all there, honestly and thoroughly depicted. Thanks for taking the time to do this!
Posted by: Dannette | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 12:03 PM
I barely got to know The Bunker. I had just joined Ravelry and sought out some of my like-minded peeps. I joined all of the conservative groups, but The Bunker was my favorite. Definitely the funniest. I had NO idea of the drama that was unfolding. I was a dumb newbie. I was there just long enough to get involved with the Machoghan project, when we all swept over to the new site. I went along because I wanted to finish what I started, but other than that, I've been a bit of a lurker, because I still (STILL) don't know the ladies that well. But I read the new board almost every day. Imagine my surprise and outrage when all these fine people were BANNED! This whole mess is just sad and disgusting, and I fear, just a picture of what the wider world will soon look like. Already does, really.
Thanks for your post. I understand it al a bit better now.
Oh, and your quote is from Sense and Sensibility! Do I win a pair of dangerous, subversive knitting needles or anything? Or wait, are conservatives still allowed to knit? We can still knit, can't we?
Posted by: Kristine | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 01:21 PM
very well said. I actually never read the thread about CBB, and still haven't found it in the Bunker, so therefore it was never on my avatar, and yet I was still banned. I have always been respectful to the owners and even heartily disagreed with one poster that thought we should do everything we could to destroy Ravelry because of the Bunker being closed down.
I am so glad I started reading Atlas Shrugged, because this is right out of the book.
If ravelry is any indication of how the Obama administration plans to "change" our country, I'm thrilled that I'm in my late 40's so I won't have to be around for the complete destruction of my country
Posted by: Kathy | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 01:30 PM
well put! incredible situation! Is there anything more frustrating than being accused of, and knowing you're believed to be guilty of, something you'd never in a million years do? when the trampled upon are treated like the tramplers, it's abuse beyond horror.
Posted by: Ann | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 01:34 PM
Wow, you did it again, wonderful post. Spoken like a true patriot all I can say is "let freedom ring" in all forms including "speech" and the "right to associate" with whom we choose. I am sort of relieved that we no longer have to put up with the Obama brown shirt mentality that permeates that place. We can honestly say "free at last".
Posted by: MsJ | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 01:57 PM
You definitely have the gift of prose. Fabulous post!
Posted by: Kandy | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 02:34 PM
I don't get into the political talks. It's one thing that I made a point of not taking sides with... especially on Ravelry. I do understand exactly what happened to you, and have had it happen to me as well. Ravelry is not the group that it once was, and free speech is not welcome anymore. It's all ad space that counts. LSG has more ads, and members, and is tolerated because of this. How do I know this? Well I was a mod at LSG in the beginning. Until the group actually decided that they didn't like me anymore. The plotted and schemed behind my back in PMs. They "did" go to the owners, and bother him until he wrote me and said aren't you happier now that you aren't even a member of that group anymore? Ummmm did I have a choice? I was just thrown out of my own group. It was once a fun place, but not anymore. Now it is a sick little twisted place that may take Ravelry down completely. You will feel better about not being welcome very soon. Trust me!
Posted by: Me | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 03:06 PM
Kristine, it might have been used in "Sense and Sensibility", but it I was referencing from another movie, one that also includes the line "so kind of you to let me come" ... try again
Posted by: MizDi | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 08:04 PM
The movie is "My Fair Lady"...Professor Higgins-- when Eliza goes to the horse race as it is her first time out in society!
Posted by: MrsLolo | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 09:32 PM
ding, ding, ding .... we have a winner!!! MrsLolo hit the nail on the head! Nice job, darlin' .... I *love* the scene with the Ascot races ... all the lovely costumes and interesting hats ... all in black and white!
Posted by: MizDi | Sunday, March 15, 2009 at 10:54 PM
I am so sorry that this happened. I had several friends that got booted and know I know. I am disappointed in how this was handled for all of you. I too am a conservative Nobama person and I am disappointed in how some people feel freedom of speech applies only if you agree with them. I hope there is soem way this can be resolved and that you can come back to Ravelry
Posted by: Claudia | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 08:31 AM
Thanks, Claudia, but I won't go back. It's become a cesspool that caters to the lewd, the profane, the obnoxious and protects their free speech, but doesn't protect the free speech of those who disagree with them.
I am, however, trying to figure a way to get my daughter back on, as she was banned, too, simply because we share an IP address. Now *that* is unfair!
Posted by: MizDi | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 08:40 AM
It's kind of like finding Galt's Gulch and deciding New York sucks after all. (Y'all need to read "Atlas Shrugged".)
Posted by: MizDi | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 08:41 AM
Hi, I also had several friends get removed from Ravelry, and it makes me very sad. I use the site (gasp) to keep track of my knitting projects, look at other people's projects, and discuss knitting. But, I did join some groups that showed my social and political leanings (the opposite to yours, but that's neither here nor there). I guess I will get off those groups now! I am very disappointed that people can't discuss what they want to with like-minded individuals. I also wonder how the trolls have so much time to do what they do, rather than something constructive like, say, KNITTING. Or doing positive work that reflects their beliefs.
What really bothers me is that I learned at least two friends were banned because a Bunker person logged on to her account at their houses. These people did nothing wrong other than know someone who is conservative. Heck, doesn't everyone know someone conservative?? Neither being a conservative nor being a liberal/progressive is a crime or a contagious disease.
I think if the Ravelry founders, who are young and a bit inexperienced at things like moderating social networks (a former career of mine, believe it or not) did not think some things through, and certainly had a way too trusting view of human nature. People love to engage in "us vs. them" behavior and to antagonize those with different views. That's why on so many email lists, moderators request that ONLY the relevant topic (knitting, crochet, socks or whatever) be discussed. That way people can remind themselves of what they have in common, rather than their differences. We are all people who love our families, our crafts and our personal belief systems. I wish more people remembered this.
Sorry for the long speech. But I needed to say it somewhere. Good luck to you all, and keep on talking about what you believe, even if I disagree with most of it!
Posted by: Suna K | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 08:59 AM
A very eloquent post on what went on, and is still going on. I'm so sorry to have lost touch with friends and people who might have become friends due to this nonsense.
I understand that if given the choice, many (if not most) of you will not choose to come back. I totally understand. While some of you may take a while to adjust having all the time back in your daily lives, eventually you will all adjust to life without that particular community, and maybe be better off for it. I admit to being a bit on the fence about staying there myself, but a stubborn part of me resents being pushed to leave by people who can't be equitable in their dealings with others. OTOH, I'm making sure I've got everything I need to keep (patterns) all saved elsewhere just in case.
I know a couple of folks who got caught in the fallout because they share computer access, etc. Such a crock. The fallout from this will be very interesting, but I'm sure the propaganda machine will sway the folks who don't want their illusion of harmony shattered. None so blind as those who will not see, etc. A lot of people are using Google to try to find out what happened. I would urge the people involved who feel inclined to post about this to stick to the facts and try not to let their emotions overwhlem the truth of the events.
I wish there could be a fair resolution to all of this, but it seems very, very unlikely. Perhaps all that can truly be hoped for is that it doesn't repeat with other groups.
Best wishes to all of you!
Posted by: Jamie | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 10:38 AM
I just want to leave some *love* for you all. I was subjected to similar trolling, hating & banning on a different message board. Thanks for being brave enough to post the whole of your story!!! I had recently joined some of the conservative groups and enjoyed reading posts by the members who are now banned. There are so many of you, and it looks like the list is still growing. (Would I be banned too if I simply added a few letters to an avatar and clicked a few links? geesh.) I miss you all; the conservative boards are too quiet now.
I'll look for another group read for AS. The one on rav only has one mod still active and no one has posted since Friday night. :(
Posted by: Laura | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 10:43 AM
Thanks so much, Suna & Jamie! I hope I kept my post sufficiently devoid of drama so that it presents a pretty clear, concise and realistic picture of how everything went down.
Suna, even though you and I may disagree politically, I'm one of those people who would defend your right to say your peace ... you sound like the same sort of person. Would that there were more people like you on Ravelry. There's a woeful lack of tolerance from the very trolls who use it as a battle cry.
Jamie, it's smart that you're gathering your materials now. Don't keep anything there that you don't want access to blocked.
Another friend quipped last night ... the whole "friends and family" ban is rather like being told "We saw you shopping at WalMart, so now you're no longer allowed inside Macy's" ... ok, she used "Dillards", but it's not a national chain the way Macy's is.
On another note ... I already have 244 hits today, and it's only 10:45a. Because I watch my pennies and only use the free version of SiteMeter, I can only see details on the most recent 100 visitors. I sure would like to know how many are mean Rubberneckers who are out trolling for anything they can poke at ... they seem to have so little going on that this is their only entertainment. Some of my Bunker Mates have gotten some truly vile comments left on their blog posts ... I certainly hope I don't have to turn on comment moderation like they have.
Posted by: MizDi | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 10:48 AM
Just so you know, I was not a Bunker member, my mother was though... Yet I was banned too... I have no idea when/why it happened because I hadn't been on in a while, but when I logged in yesterday I was banned. It makes absolutely no sense to me, because I was a member of a Sarah Palin group for a while, but I left when things got too drama filled for me (college = enough drama on its own). I left way before all this stuff went down, and when the Bunker was closed, I happened to be home for the weekend and I went through some of the posts to see what was going on. I didn't post though, maybe I was banned for just looking? The only thing I can think of is that when I'm most often on Ravelry, I'm using my laptop at home and they just assumed that my account was my mom's alternative one? I'm not sure.
I might know what did it though... I did contact Michelle Malkin with the site's contact information and what was happening as yet another example of the intolerance and downright discrimination going on, in terms of it being an escalated problem. I don't know if anything ever came of it... But maybe they were contacted? I have no idea.
Anyway, I thought I should let you know that people who simply *visited* the Bunker and/or shared an internet connection for a while are being banned too. Ridiculous injustice and a blatant violation of the right to speech our Founders believed to be so fundamental, Madison included it in the First Amendment. Ravelry = what the future for America holds? I really hope not. Police states have never been successful.
Posted by: Janna | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 11:20 AM
I'm a liberal and a member of some of the groups you abhor, but I'm not here to mock, only because I'm trying to figure out what's going on. You might call this interest or curiosity or pure nosiness, but, truly, I mean you no harm. I suspect that the same may be true of many of the other 244+ visitors.
I've visited the Bunker and even made one post -- I'm pretty sure it was there, might have been on one of the other conservative forums. It was in one of the very rare instances of my agreeing with the OP, and my post wasn't deleted, nor was I harassed in any way or told I wasn't welcome, although anyone who looks at what groups I belong to knows what my politics are. I haven't been banned from Ravelry either.
I can only think that some things have been way overblown on both sides. I've certainly seen some posts in the Bunker that gave me pause, but I've also seen less-than-aboveboard behavior from my side of the political fence. I hope at least that the issue of the guilt-by-association banning gets resolved.
Posted by: Lucia | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 04:50 PM
Hi, Lucia. Thanks for checking in. Because I've not yet been forced to turn on comment moderation, I believe you're likely correct in your estimation of the intent of my visitors (although I'm not sure how you could tell how many people had visited my site). I'm hoping because it's partly because I've done my best to keep the post as dispassionate as possible, giving no one anything to pick apart. :)
I appreciate that you were wise enough that, in venturing into an arena where you would likely disagree with the majority of the members, you were able to speak with us rationally, with well-thought out questions, responses and the like. You were truly one of the exceptions to the rule.
So many times people would come in with a bone to pick, an axe to grind, and a chip on their shoulder, and rather than using reason and facts in response, they would immediately revert to ad hominem attacks. (Wow, that was a very long sentence ... hope people can follow that!) The only people that got deleted were those that came in to be disagreeable, abrasive and obnoxious ... or who tried to 'enlighten' or 'educate' us. Being grown women, most of us over the age of 40 (with some grammies in the group), we'd pretty much decided on our world view and didn't really need 'enlightening' or 'education' from people far younger with fewer manners and less life experience.
I read one person's explanation of the delete policy as this: "You wouldn't let an uninvited guest come into your living room in the middle of a party, take a crap in the middle of the floor and just leave it there." Although crass, I feel it's an apt analogy. To leave 'troll posts' in a thread would simply encourage like-minded "guests" to come on in 'cause the water's fine, or would fuel resentment of the members, stirring controversy and anger, which we, as moderators, tried to keep to a minimum. Snark? Sure ... Bitterness and vitriol distributed willy nilly to keep people riled up? NO! It's counter-productive and stupid. If we ever had a member post nonsense like that, it was dealt with promptly (if a mod was online and could see it ... flagged or not). Accusations of inept moderation couldn't be further from the truth. Part of the problem was that trolls wouldn't even bother to work with our moderators and would instead bother the site admin with PM after nagging PM ... he got sick of it, but the complaints were unwarranted, generated by the bias of those making the complaints, by the fact that our group even existed. To them, that was one of the worst affronts. They believed that their group "deserved" to be there, but that ours did not.
From what we've been able to figure out, the problem hasn't been so much that people had been to the Bunker forum on Ravelry, but rather that they had been members of our off-Rav Bunker gathering place, a place we had (with Rav blessing, BTW) where we could gather and gab and opine ... without interference from people who just would not leave us alone because they didn't agree with us. Most everyone is aware that the Ravelry Rubberneckers group also has an off-site gathering place, and because I suspect that they're continuing their activity of finding posts to make fun of or call attention to for some other reason, they likely post links on their off-site board for their friends to look at.
While we have all abhorred the idea and/or practice of "rubber-necking" around the Ravelry forums in search of people to mock, there have been a few instances where one member has called a thread to the attention to our members out of concern. In some instances, our members may have clicked a link to see what was going on. Now, bear in mind that on any given night there are maybe 25 to 40 Bunker Babes on line at any one time. The site we're using is a bit unwieldy and nowhere as easy to navigate through posts as Rav forums are. The chances of 25-40 people clicking on a link at the same time, causing even a miniscule increase in hits, is pretty absurd on the face, yet it's been relayed to us that the site administrations have been telling the entire Ravelry population that we've been causing disruption.
When the Ravelry Rubberneckers group's entire reason for being is to click around the forums in search of things to mock, I'm sure they're causing much more traffic than our few ladies who are just trying to stay informed.
In addition, if a subscriber to the Lime & Violet web site were to post a link to a Ravelry post, I'm certain that, with the large following they have, the increase in traffic from that site would be far more significant.
Yet, we're supposedly being disruptive. In addition, we've been told that someone on Rav (with user initials KA) asserted that we had somehow been planning "concerted Friday Night attacks" on Ravelry. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Many of our off-site member had chosen only to go back to use Ravelry for the intention with which it was created. Many had chosen not to go back at all. Some had yet to make a decision ... Friday night attacks indeed. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Frankly, in the event that was Bunker Eviction 1.0 our group told angry visitors who said 'get back at them' to ratchet down their rhetoric, because it was wrong and wouldn't solve anything. Several visitors had advocated boycotts, but we kept telling them to stop with those kinds of ideas because they were actionable and counter-productive.
Because you've volunteered that you view our society from the other side of the political fence from me, I will that it's natural that you might've been taken aback from some of what you saw posted. But honestly, none of our ladies (no matter what you've heard/seen) is racist. We have Latinos, Philipinos, African-Americans, Russians ... if anything racist were posted by a member, it would not have been allowed to stand ... from *them* let alone a moderator.
I'm glad you came to one of the sources to get the low down. What you've seen "overblown" from "our side" is very possibly from people who'd been to the Bunker on occasion and may or may not have been regular members. And I will agree that there has been reactive snark on both sides of the fence. But I can assure you that the core Bunker members, those that migrated off-site to find some peace from the harrassement, were not the problem.
Thanks for your time. (whew ... my fingers are tired)
Posted by: MizDi | Monday, March 16, 2009 at 07:10 PM
I am so grateful that you took the time to write this all out. I was somewhat aware of the various stuff going on but I found it hard to comprehend. Your insider's perspective has helped me understand fully what happened. I still find it hard to believe that the owner of ravelry would go berserk and do mass bannings of people who didn't do anything wrong (except be conservative! and belong to the bunker group!)
I'm afraid this hasn't done anything to help me learn to stop worrying and love the Obama. ;-)
Posted by: Susan (humblethreads) | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 at 10:53 AM
Aww, you mean someone isn't letting you use their private, completely free, not-related-to-politics site to bullheadedly take over EVERYTHING and make it political? What an utter violation of...your way. I can tell because of the repeated temper tantrums.
I see you haven't quite made it out of school and into the adult world yet (you have some pruning to do on that dissertation up there--I have seen scholarly writing be both shorter and more coherent), so I'll cut you some slack, but do consider trying to behave like an adult in the future.
No, you probably have no clue who I am, because normally I'm too busy doing important things like not whining about the executive branch of the United States government. (Fun fact: did you know that Ravelry seems to have members from many countries that are not even attached to North America?) I actually have very little clue as to the minutiae of this whingefest, but you are not making yourselves out to be the bigger persons here. When you can do that, maybe someone will cry elephant tears with you. Good luck in the meantime.
Oh, before I go, a friendly reminder: deleting comments you don't agree with is no different from stifling a person's free speech. RIGHT?
Posted by: Kiki de Montparnasse | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 at 07:33 PM
P.S. I caught a few lines of text on the laborious scroll to the top of the page, and I think your paranoia has led you into blaming the wrong groups of people. Maybe you're just offensive to all five senses (six, including the bullshit radar).
Posted by: Kiki de Montparnasse | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 at 07:37 PM
A more apt analogy would be to say that you rented a hotel room and someone crapped in the middle of the floor, but rather than doing a good job cleaning it you just sort of smeared it into the carpet and took off. How many times would the hotel staff have to see the crap before they stop giving you the key to that room for free?
Posted by: Bristol Palin | Tuesday, March 17, 2009 at 10:21 PM
For those that are thinking this was just a mistake, and they will reverse this. This is what has been sent to those that were banned, including the friends of people whose computers just happen to have been members, that had by chance logged into their ravelry accounts at said friends home:
Subject: Notice of suspension from Ravelry.com
Please be advised that your user account at www.Ravelry.com (the “Website”) has been permanently suspended due to a violation of Ravelry, LLC’s (the “Company”) Terms of Use.
This suspension is a result of your ongoing effort to disrupt the Website and the experience of its users. We have identified your actions through your membership on the website www.bunkerboard.com. Your actions are well documented and validated by your IP address. We have compiled numerous examples of certain users, including you, from the offending website using our Website’s posting, flagging, and voting features, amongst other tactics, to disrupt and harass our legitimate and serious users.
Section 8(1) of the Website’s Terms of Use specifically states that you agree not to use the Website to post content that is harassing or otherwise objectionable. This same Section, paragraph (12), also states that you agree not to use the Website to harass another user. If found in violation of any of the Website’s Terms of Use or if you have acted in a manner which demonstrates you do not intend to comply with the Terms of Use, Section 12(2)(4) allows the Company to immediately terminate your user account.
At this time, your user account will remain in permanent suspension and you will be unable to access the Website for any purpose. If you have patterns that you have purchased and stored on the Website, we will email these to you within seven (7) days of this email. For people who have advertisements on the Website, they will be immediately removed. Since these advertisements are paid in the arrears, we will not be seeking payment for removed advertisements from advertisers who had their accounts suspended.
If you feel you have been suspended in error, you are welcome to submit a request for reinstatement to [email protected] and we will consider these appeals on a case-by- base basis. However, I will advise that if you were a member of www.bunkerboard.com we will not consider your appeal. If indeed we determine you were suspended in error, we will of course reinstate your account immediately and apologize for any inconvenience.
The decision to suspend users did not come easy to the owners of Ravelry. However, since the community has grown so large, we just cannot continue to expend valuable resources on policing a few users who have such a negative impact on the entire community. We are a small company with very limited resources who are attempting to provide an enjoyable experience for all users and we cannot continue to tolerate this type of disruptive and objectionable conduct.
Sincerely,
Craig S. Stelmach, Esq.
Ravelry, LLC
Posted by: husband of a banned one | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 12:02 AM
No wonder you got booted from Ravelry. I would have booted you too. This post was ridiculously long and annoying and naggy.
Posted by: roga | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 03:07 AM
You're all a bunch of twits and I'm glad you're gone from Ravelry. Now maybe we all can get back to our knitting.
Posted by: Glad You're All Gone | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 02:25 PM
Sadly, I know of at least 2 people caught up in the dragnet. For one, I went in and downloaded all of the posts she's made since joining Ravelry. They prove she is innocent of what she was accused of in that letter. She's never harassed anyone.
Yes, sites attract trolls, and yes, some people's behavior violated the terms of service. But a blanket "guilt-by-association" dismissal is wrong on so very many levels, no matter which side of the fence you sit.
Posted by: saintseester | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 08:14 PM
I'd remind the negative commenters that if it happened to some it can happen to others, so watch yourselves over there.
Posted by: Triple-threat Conservative II | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 09:18 PM
"One member made a group in which we expressed our appreciation for The Noodle (a.k.a. KnittinNoodle, one of our sassiest and most outspoken members)."
Do you know you are the only one I have seen be honest about this. Every other bunker person who has said anything about this group swears that group was about pasta and even included recipes? Sad thing I really do love pasta and that was the first group I had seen about it or so I thought at first.
Posted by: Candy | Wednesday, March 18, 2009 at 10:59 PM
To Kiki de Montparnasse:
It's been said that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. I highly recommend that you review the excerpt below and tell the class where the obvious mistakes are.
"...I actually have very little clue as to the minutiae of this whingefest..."
Posted by: Janedoe | Thursday, March 19, 2009 at 11:22 AM
To Janedoe:
Psh! I guess you got me. Oh, you so got me. You got me good. Yeah. Now punish me hard.
I've learned never to pay much attention to quotes surrounded by or containing ellipses, especially if I said it. Though yes, it was my fault for not filling in that statement with AND BY THAT I MEAN I DON'T KNOW WHY ALL YOU BATSHIT REACTIONARIES ARE OFFENDED BY DEFAULT, and I truly regret the error. I thought it was pretty self-evident.
Now let me quote you selectively!
"It's been said...I highly recommend...the excerpt below."
See? Your words are all there. Thanks for the lovely thoughts.
Truly yours (because you know you want me),
KdM
Posted by: Kiki de Montparnasse | Thursday, March 19, 2009 at 12:07 PM
Ah, another of my favorite weiners -- I mean whiners. You know, after reading this page, you have my vote for sainthood. Rarely does one come across someone of the blessed innocence of Mother Theresa, yet here were a whole 600 of you, and we all failed to understand. Certainly all our correspondence was full of the milk and honey of human kindness.
The only solace I can offer is that you, and all those other saints who were viciously and maliciously expelled from the invective-flinging fiber society, will have special seating in the Rapture section, where God Himself will be able to judge the absolute veracity of your claims.
Good luck with that. Oh, and BTW... I'm still there.
Posted by: Sharon | Thursday, March 19, 2009 at 02:55 PM
Aw, poow speschul snowfwake. Are the big owe internet meanies out to get you?
Posted by: Presents | Friday, March 20, 2009 at 08:52 AM
Dear MizDi,
I have a problem. A lady who claims to believe in free speech keeps taking my perfectly reasonable posts off her site, just because I am a liberal. Gosh, I have a RIGHT to free speech ANYWHERE I WANT, right? So why are you taking my posts off? It couldn't be that you recognize that troublemakers aren't wanted, could it? It couldn't be that you know, down in your heart of hearts, that the situation isn't as saintly as you present it...
Anyway, I just wanted to say that Ravelry was less fun without you there, but now that I know how to find you, life is back to wonderfully screwy.
Your friend,
Me
Posted by: Sharon | Friday, March 20, 2009 at 03:47 PM
Wow, Sharon. If you'll notice, I haven't deleted your post. Perhaps you should think about reading through all the comments. You'd see yours right there with everyone else's. I only delete posts that are ... what do you and your cohort call it ... um, that's right ... truly "vile". You see, I prefer to leave troll posts up so people can judge for themselves whether they agree with me ... or with thee.
And, well, you can have your free speech, but just as Ravelry is "Casey & Jess's sandbox" and they get to determine the content there, this is *my* sandbox. You play nice or I ban you here.
See, if you think it's fair there, it's fair here, right?
Oh, and now that you "know how to find me", please realize I can find you right back. How's about we instead learn how to live and let live. I won't stalk you and you don't stalk me, K? I really don't need my own Deb Frisch, and I don't want to have to break out my uncle the attorney.
So, read to your heart's content ... heck, go ahead and share links with your friends ... mock me all you want ... but keep it on Ravelry - after all, it's what I've come to expect from that particular venue. Why shatter my bubble?
Posted by: MizDi | Friday, March 20, 2009 at 06:29 PM
Roga - Nobody made you read it.
Glad You're All Gone - Then why are you here and not knitting?
And [Deleted] - Cuckoo
Posted by: Tammy | Friday, March 20, 2009 at 10:55 PM
Kiki ~ and yet, as one who confesses to not knowing all the particulars, you continue to see the need to inject yourself into the "conversation" ... Well, I'll leave you alone to your one-sided conversation.
Posted by: MizDi | Sunday, March 22, 2009 at 12:23 PM
MizDi-
I think you misunderstood me. It's not that I don't KNOW (I mean, god, anyone can have ravelry access and not fuck it up by being insufferable, and I know how to search the internet--you guys are not half as clever as you think), it's that I DON'T GIVE THE KIND OF SHIT YOU DO. You're brats, okay? It's apparently useless for me to try and be any nicer about it. I knew the particulars long before this barrage of text came up in Google. When I said I didn't, I was mocking you. I don't agree with you. Therefore I don't understand you. Do you now understand the little word-game I've played with you?
Ah well, riverrun, past eve and adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to howth castle and environs...
shall I continue?
Posted by: James Joyce, Kd.M | Tuesday, March 24, 2009 at 12:32 AM
I think its sad that ravelry users have become trolls that search the internet and say such nasty things to people. They complain about the conservatives being jerks to them and then do the same thing back. If they did not like what others were doing to them then why do they do it back? Come on people and be consistent! If you dont like it then dont do it to someone else.
I dont know all the details into the banning. I stay away from politics and only use the message boards for fun stuff. I stayed away from politics and I am going to continue to do so. I am sorry that you were banned. I hope that you can still talk to your friends via email and other network sites.
Posted by: Andrea | Wednesday, March 25, 2009 at 08:25 PM
u r kr@zee!!
Posted by: nuts0 | Tuesday, March 31, 2009 at 06:44 PM
Um....
MizDi, would you please email me? Thanks.
MissRach
Posted by: MissRach | Sunday, June 28, 2009 at 03:46 PM
tl;dr
Posted by: Mmm | Tuesday, June 30, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Ravelry has turned ugly. TPTB are now acting like jerks, even more than before.
I am far from conservative, but I do think that you got shafted.
Posted by: Fed Up in Florida | Tuesday, August 25, 2009 at 10:57 AM
Thanks, Fed Up. Unfortunately, it's not just TPTB that are acting like extreme jerks. As you can see from some of the comments left here, some of their sycophants are turning downright deranged and somewhat scary. Personally, I was getting a little concerned there for a while, to the point that I stopped blogging for a while. It was making my blood pressure rise.
Personally, I'm never recommending to any other person that they go to Ravelry, or if they want to use the resources, I tell them to stay away from the *any* forum, even if they need help with something. Better they should go to their local yarn shop, where they won't get attacked for asking a simple question.
I'm never going to venture to step my virtual toe into that cesspool ever again. It's just not worth it.
Posted by: MizDi | Tuesday, August 25, 2009 at 11:07 AM
I have to admit that I really liked it when I first joined. TPTB seemed so nice in the beginning, but either the stress of running Ravelry has taken its toll, or the power has gone to their heads. Either way, it stinks.
I have to admit, there were a few posts in the Bunker that I found offensive, but many of the groups have those, but it wasn't the majority. I actually agreed with your policy of deleting those posts from those who came in to start trouble rather than taking the bait and making things worse.
I do not agree with your politics, but I would never try to tell you that you could not discuss them.
Posted by: Fed Up in Florida | Tuesday, August 25, 2009 at 11:14 AM
I have an idea. Chill out. It's the internet.
Posted by: TehShay | Wednesday, April 14, 2010 at 11:50 AM