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Sunday, March 15, 2009

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Wow. It's all there, honestly and thoroughly depicted. Thanks for taking the time to do this!

I barely got to know The Bunker. I had just joined Ravelry and sought out some of my like-minded peeps. I joined all of the conservative groups, but The Bunker was my favorite. Definitely the funniest. I had NO idea of the drama that was unfolding. I was a dumb newbie. I was there just long enough to get involved with the Machoghan project, when we all swept over to the new site. I went along because I wanted to finish what I started, but other than that, I've been a bit of a lurker, because I still (STILL) don't know the ladies that well. But I read the new board almost every day. Imagine my surprise and outrage when all these fine people were BANNED! This whole mess is just sad and disgusting, and I fear, just a picture of what the wider world will soon look like. Already does, really.

Thanks for your post. I understand it al a bit better now.

Oh, and your quote is from Sense and Sensibility! Do I win a pair of dangerous, subversive knitting needles or anything? Or wait, are conservatives still allowed to knit? We can still knit, can't we?

very well said. I actually never read the thread about CBB, and still haven't found it in the Bunker, so therefore it was never on my avatar, and yet I was still banned. I have always been respectful to the owners and even heartily disagreed with one poster that thought we should do everything we could to destroy Ravelry because of the Bunker being closed down.
I am so glad I started reading Atlas Shrugged, because this is right out of the book.
If ravelry is any indication of how the Obama administration plans to "change" our country, I'm thrilled that I'm in my late 40's so I won't have to be around for the complete destruction of my country

well put! incredible situation! Is there anything more frustrating than being accused of, and knowing you're believed to be guilty of, something you'd never in a million years do? when the trampled upon are treated like the tramplers, it's abuse beyond horror.

Wow, you did it again, wonderful post. Spoken like a true patriot all I can say is "let freedom ring" in all forms including "speech" and the "right to associate" with whom we choose. I am sort of relieved that we no longer have to put up with the Obama brown shirt mentality that permeates that place. We can honestly say "free at last".

You definitely have the gift of prose. Fabulous post!

I don't get into the political talks. It's one thing that I made a point of not taking sides with... especially on Ravelry. I do understand exactly what happened to you, and have had it happen to me as well. Ravelry is not the group that it once was, and free speech is not welcome anymore. It's all ad space that counts. LSG has more ads, and members, and is tolerated because of this. How do I know this? Well I was a mod at LSG in the beginning. Until the group actually decided that they didn't like me anymore. The plotted and schemed behind my back in PMs. They "did" go to the owners, and bother him until he wrote me and said aren't you happier now that you aren't even a member of that group anymore? Ummmm did I have a choice? I was just thrown out of my own group. It was once a fun place, but not anymore. Now it is a sick little twisted place that may take Ravelry down completely. You will feel better about not being welcome very soon. Trust me!

Kristine, it might have been used in "Sense and Sensibility", but it I was referencing from another movie, one that also includes the line "so kind of you to let me come" ... try again

The movie is "My Fair Lady"...Professor Higgins-- when Eliza goes to the horse race as it is her first time out in society!

ding, ding, ding .... we have a winner!!! MrsLolo hit the nail on the head! Nice job, darlin' .... I *love* the scene with the Ascot races ... all the lovely costumes and interesting hats ... all in black and white!

I am so sorry that this happened. I had several friends that got booted and know I know. I am disappointed in how this was handled for all of you. I too am a conservative Nobama person and I am disappointed in how some people feel freedom of speech applies only if you agree with them. I hope there is soem way this can be resolved and that you can come back to Ravelry

Thanks, Claudia, but I won't go back. It's become a cesspool that caters to the lewd, the profane, the obnoxious and protects their free speech, but doesn't protect the free speech of those who disagree with them.

I am, however, trying to figure a way to get my daughter back on, as she was banned, too, simply because we share an IP address. Now *that* is unfair!

It's kind of like finding Galt's Gulch and deciding New York sucks after all. (Y'all need to read "Atlas Shrugged".)

Hi, I also had several friends get removed from Ravelry, and it makes me very sad. I use the site (gasp) to keep track of my knitting projects, look at other people's projects, and discuss knitting. But, I did join some groups that showed my social and political leanings (the opposite to yours, but that's neither here nor there). I guess I will get off those groups now! I am very disappointed that people can't discuss what they want to with like-minded individuals. I also wonder how the trolls have so much time to do what they do, rather than something constructive like, say, KNITTING. Or doing positive work that reflects their beliefs.

What really bothers me is that I learned at least two friends were banned because a Bunker person logged on to her account at their houses. These people did nothing wrong other than know someone who is conservative. Heck, doesn't everyone know someone conservative?? Neither being a conservative nor being a liberal/progressive is a crime or a contagious disease.

I think if the Ravelry founders, who are young and a bit inexperienced at things like moderating social networks (a former career of mine, believe it or not) did not think some things through, and certainly had a way too trusting view of human nature. People love to engage in "us vs. them" behavior and to antagonize those with different views. That's why on so many email lists, moderators request that ONLY the relevant topic (knitting, crochet, socks or whatever) be discussed. That way people can remind themselves of what they have in common, rather than their differences. We are all people who love our families, our crafts and our personal belief systems. I wish more people remembered this.

Sorry for the long speech. But I needed to say it somewhere. Good luck to you all, and keep on talking about what you believe, even if I disagree with most of it!

A very eloquent post on what went on, and is still going on. I'm so sorry to have lost touch with friends and people who might have become friends due to this nonsense.

I understand that if given the choice, many (if not most) of you will not choose to come back. I totally understand. While some of you may take a while to adjust having all the time back in your daily lives, eventually you will all adjust to life without that particular community, and maybe be better off for it. I admit to being a bit on the fence about staying there myself, but a stubborn part of me resents being pushed to leave by people who can't be equitable in their dealings with others. OTOH, I'm making sure I've got everything I need to keep (patterns) all saved elsewhere just in case.

I know a couple of folks who got caught in the fallout because they share computer access, etc. Such a crock. The fallout from this will be very interesting, but I'm sure the propaganda machine will sway the folks who don't want their illusion of harmony shattered. None so blind as those who will not see, etc. A lot of people are using Google to try to find out what happened. I would urge the people involved who feel inclined to post about this to stick to the facts and try not to let their emotions overwhlem the truth of the events.

I wish there could be a fair resolution to all of this, but it seems very, very unlikely. Perhaps all that can truly be hoped for is that it doesn't repeat with other groups.

Best wishes to all of you!

I just want to leave some *love* for you all. I was subjected to similar trolling, hating & banning on a different message board. Thanks for being brave enough to post the whole of your story!!! I had recently joined some of the conservative groups and enjoyed reading posts by the members who are now banned. There are so many of you, and it looks like the list is still growing. (Would I be banned too if I simply added a few letters to an avatar and clicked a few links? geesh.) I miss you all; the conservative boards are too quiet now.

I'll look for another group read for AS. The one on rav only has one mod still active and no one has posted since Friday night. :(

Thanks so much, Suna & Jamie! I hope I kept my post sufficiently devoid of drama so that it presents a pretty clear, concise and realistic picture of how everything went down.

Suna, even though you and I may disagree politically, I'm one of those people who would defend your right to say your peace ... you sound like the same sort of person. Would that there were more people like you on Ravelry. There's a woeful lack of tolerance from the very trolls who use it as a battle cry.

Jamie, it's smart that you're gathering your materials now. Don't keep anything there that you don't want access to blocked.

Another friend quipped last night ... the whole "friends and family" ban is rather like being told "We saw you shopping at WalMart, so now you're no longer allowed inside Macy's" ... ok, she used "Dillards", but it's not a national chain the way Macy's is.

On another note ... I already have 244 hits today, and it's only 10:45a. Because I watch my pennies and only use the free version of SiteMeter, I can only see details on the most recent 100 visitors. I sure would like to know how many are mean Rubberneckers who are out trolling for anything they can poke at ... they seem to have so little going on that this is their only entertainment. Some of my Bunker Mates have gotten some truly vile comments left on their blog posts ... I certainly hope I don't have to turn on comment moderation like they have.

Just so you know, I was not a Bunker member, my mother was though... Yet I was banned too... I have no idea when/why it happened because I hadn't been on in a while, but when I logged in yesterday I was banned. It makes absolutely no sense to me, because I was a member of a Sarah Palin group for a while, but I left when things got too drama filled for me (college = enough drama on its own). I left way before all this stuff went down, and when the Bunker was closed, I happened to be home for the weekend and I went through some of the posts to see what was going on. I didn't post though, maybe I was banned for just looking? The only thing I can think of is that when I'm most often on Ravelry, I'm using my laptop at home and they just assumed that my account was my mom's alternative one? I'm not sure.

I might know what did it though... I did contact Michelle Malkin with the site's contact information and what was happening as yet another example of the intolerance and downright discrimination going on, in terms of it being an escalated problem. I don't know if anything ever came of it... But maybe they were contacted? I have no idea.

Anyway, I thought I should let you know that people who simply *visited* the Bunker and/or shared an internet connection for a while are being banned too. Ridiculous injustice and a blatant violation of the right to speech our Founders believed to be so fundamental, Madison included it in the First Amendment. Ravelry = what the future for America holds? I really hope not. Police states have never been successful.

I'm a liberal and a member of some of the groups you abhor, but I'm not here to mock, only because I'm trying to figure out what's going on. You might call this interest or curiosity or pure nosiness, but, truly, I mean you no harm. I suspect that the same may be true of many of the other 244+ visitors.

I've visited the Bunker and even made one post -- I'm pretty sure it was there, might have been on one of the other conservative forums. It was in one of the very rare instances of my agreeing with the OP, and my post wasn't deleted, nor was I harassed in any way or told I wasn't welcome, although anyone who looks at what groups I belong to knows what my politics are. I haven't been banned from Ravelry either.

I can only think that some things have been way overblown on both sides. I've certainly seen some posts in the Bunker that gave me pause, but I've also seen less-than-aboveboard behavior from my side of the political fence. I hope at least that the issue of the guilt-by-association banning gets resolved.

Hi, Lucia. Thanks for checking in. Because I've not yet been forced to turn on comment moderation, I believe you're likely correct in your estimation of the intent of my visitors (although I'm not sure how you could tell how many people had visited my site). I'm hoping because it's partly because I've done my best to keep the post as dispassionate as possible, giving no one anything to pick apart. :)

I appreciate that you were wise enough that, in venturing into an arena where you would likely disagree with the majority of the members, you were able to speak with us rationally, with well-thought out questions, responses and the like. You were truly one of the exceptions to the rule.

So many times people would come in with a bone to pick, an axe to grind, and a chip on their shoulder, and rather than using reason and facts in response, they would immediately revert to ad hominem attacks. (Wow, that was a very long sentence ... hope people can follow that!) The only people that got deleted were those that came in to be disagreeable, abrasive and obnoxious ... or who tried to 'enlighten' or 'educate' us. Being grown women, most of us over the age of 40 (with some grammies in the group), we'd pretty much decided on our world view and didn't really need 'enlightening' or 'education' from people far younger with fewer manners and less life experience.

I read one person's explanation of the delete policy as this: "You wouldn't let an uninvited guest come into your living room in the middle of a party, take a crap in the middle of the floor and just leave it there." Although crass, I feel it's an apt analogy. To leave 'troll posts' in a thread would simply encourage like-minded "guests" to come on in 'cause the water's fine, or would fuel resentment of the members, stirring controversy and anger, which we, as moderators, tried to keep to a minimum. Snark? Sure ... Bitterness and vitriol distributed willy nilly to keep people riled up? NO! It's counter-productive and stupid. If we ever had a member post nonsense like that, it was dealt with promptly (if a mod was online and could see it ... flagged or not). Accusations of inept moderation couldn't be further from the truth. Part of the problem was that trolls wouldn't even bother to work with our moderators and would instead bother the site admin with PM after nagging PM ... he got sick of it, but the complaints were unwarranted, generated by the bias of those making the complaints, by the fact that our group even existed. To them, that was one of the worst affronts. They believed that their group "deserved" to be there, but that ours did not.

From what we've been able to figure out, the problem hasn't been so much that people had been to the Bunker forum on Ravelry, but rather that they had been members of our off-Rav Bunker gathering place, a place we had (with Rav blessing, BTW) where we could gather and gab and opine ... without interference from people who just would not leave us alone because they didn't agree with us. Most everyone is aware that the Ravelry Rubberneckers group also has an off-site gathering place, and because I suspect that they're continuing their activity of finding posts to make fun of or call attention to for some other reason, they likely post links on their off-site board for their friends to look at.

While we have all abhorred the idea and/or practice of "rubber-necking" around the Ravelry forums in search of people to mock, there have been a few instances where one member has called a thread to the attention to our members out of concern. In some instances, our members may have clicked a link to see what was going on. Now, bear in mind that on any given night there are maybe 25 to 40 Bunker Babes on line at any one time. The site we're using is a bit unwieldy and nowhere as easy to navigate through posts as Rav forums are. The chances of 25-40 people clicking on a link at the same time, causing even a miniscule increase in hits, is pretty absurd on the face, yet it's been relayed to us that the site administrations have been telling the entire Ravelry population that we've been causing disruption.

When the Ravelry Rubberneckers group's entire reason for being is to click around the forums in search of things to mock, I'm sure they're causing much more traffic than our few ladies who are just trying to stay informed.

In addition, if a subscriber to the Lime & Violet web site were to post a link to a Ravelry post, I'm certain that, with the large following they have, the increase in traffic from that site would be far more significant.

Yet, we're supposedly being disruptive. In addition, we've been told that someone on Rav (with user initials KA) asserted that we had somehow been planning "concerted Friday Night attacks" on Ravelry. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Many of our off-site member had chosen only to go back to use Ravelry for the intention with which it was created. Many had chosen not to go back at all. Some had yet to make a decision ... Friday night attacks indeed. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Frankly, in the event that was Bunker Eviction 1.0 our group told angry visitors who said 'get back at them' to ratchet down their rhetoric, because it was wrong and wouldn't solve anything. Several visitors had advocated boycotts, but we kept telling them to stop with those kinds of ideas because they were actionable and counter-productive.

Because you've volunteered that you view our society from the other side of the political fence from me, I will that it's natural that you might've been taken aback from some of what you saw posted. But honestly, none of our ladies (no matter what you've heard/seen) is racist. We have Latinos, Philipinos, African-Americans, Russians ... if anything racist were posted by a member, it would not have been allowed to stand ... from *them* let alone a moderator.

I'm glad you came to one of the sources to get the low down. What you've seen "overblown" from "our side" is very possibly from people who'd been to the Bunker on occasion and may or may not have been regular members. And I will agree that there has been reactive snark on both sides of the fence. But I can assure you that the core Bunker members, those that migrated off-site to find some peace from the harrassement, were not the problem.

Thanks for your time. (whew ... my fingers are tired)

I am so grateful that you took the time to write this all out. I was somewhat aware of the various stuff going on but I found it hard to comprehend. Your insider's perspective has helped me understand fully what happened. I still find it hard to believe that the owner of ravelry would go berserk and do mass bannings of people who didn't do anything wrong (except be conservative! and belong to the bunker group!)

I'm afraid this hasn't done anything to help me learn to stop worrying and love the Obama. ;-)

Aww, you mean someone isn't letting you use their private, completely free, not-related-to-politics site to bullheadedly take over EVERYTHING and make it political? What an utter violation of...your way. I can tell because of the repeated temper tantrums.

I see you haven't quite made it out of school and into the adult world yet (you have some pruning to do on that dissertation up there--I have seen scholarly writing be both shorter and more coherent), so I'll cut you some slack, but do consider trying to behave like an adult in the future.

No, you probably have no clue who I am, because normally I'm too busy doing important things like not whining about the executive branch of the United States government. (Fun fact: did you know that Ravelry seems to have members from many countries that are not even attached to North America?) I actually have very little clue as to the minutiae of this whingefest, but you are not making yourselves out to be the bigger persons here. When you can do that, maybe someone will cry elephant tears with you. Good luck in the meantime.

Oh, before I go, a friendly reminder: deleting comments you don't agree with is no different from stifling a person's free speech. RIGHT?

P.S. I caught a few lines of text on the laborious scroll to the top of the page, and I think your paranoia has led you into blaming the wrong groups of people. Maybe you're just offensive to all five senses (six, including the bullshit radar).

A more apt analogy would be to say that you rented a hotel room and someone crapped in the middle of the floor, but rather than doing a good job cleaning it you just sort of smeared it into the carpet and took off. How many times would the hotel staff have to see the crap before they stop giving you the key to that room for free?

For those that are thinking this was just a mistake, and they will reverse this. This is what has been sent to those that were banned, including the friends of people whose computers just happen to have been members, that had by chance logged into their ravelry accounts at said friends home:

Subject: Notice of suspension from Ravelry.com

Please be advised that your user account at www.Ravelry.com (the “Website”) has been permanently suspended due to a violation of Ravelry, LLC’s (the “Company”) Terms of Use.

This suspension is a result of your ongoing effort to disrupt the Website and the experience of its users. We have identified your actions through your membership on the website www.bunkerboard.com. Your actions are well documented and validated by your IP address. We have compiled numerous examples of certain users, including you, from the offending website using our Website’s posting, flagging, and voting features, amongst other tactics, to disrupt and harass our legitimate and serious users.

Section 8(1) of the Website’s Terms of Use specifically states that you agree not to use the Website to post content that is harassing or otherwise objectionable. This same Section, paragraph (12), also states that you agree not to use the Website to harass another user. If found in violation of any of the Website’s Terms of Use or if you have acted in a manner which demonstrates you do not intend to comply with the Terms of Use, Section 12(2)(4) allows the Company to immediately terminate your user account.

At this time, your user account will remain in permanent suspension and you will be unable to access the Website for any purpose. If you have patterns that you have purchased and stored on the Website, we will email these to you within seven (7) days of this email. For people who have advertisements on the Website, they will be immediately removed. Since these advertisements are paid in the arrears, we will not be seeking payment for removed advertisements from advertisers who had their accounts suspended.

If you feel you have been suspended in error, you are welcome to submit a request for reinstatement to legal@ravelry.com and we will consider these appeals on a case-by- base basis. However, I will advise that if you were a member of www.bunkerboard.com we will not consider your appeal. If indeed we determine you were suspended in error, we will of course reinstate your account immediately and apologize for any inconvenience.

The decision to suspend users did not come easy to the owners of Ravelry. However, since the community has grown so large, we just cannot continue to expend valuable resources on policing a few users who have such a negative impact on the entire community. We are a small company with very limited resources who are attempting to provide an enjoyable experience for all users and we cannot continue to tolerate this type of disruptive and objectionable conduct.

Sincerely,

Craig S. Stelmach, Esq.
Ravelry, LLC

No wonder you got booted from Ravelry. I would have booted you too. This post was ridiculously long and annoying and naggy.

You're all a bunch of twits and I'm glad you're gone from Ravelry. Now maybe we all can get back to our knitting.

Sadly, I know of at least 2 people caught up in the dragnet. For one, I went in and downloaded all of the posts she's made since joining Ravelry. They prove she is innocent of what she was accused of in that letter. She's never harassed anyone.

Yes, sites attract trolls, and yes, some people's behavior violated the terms of service. But a blanket "guilt-by-association" dismissal is wrong on so very many levels, no matter which side of the fence you sit.

I'd remind the negative commenters that if it happened to some it can happen to others, so watch yourselves over there.

"One member made a group in which we expressed our appreciation for The Noodle (a.k.a. KnittinNoodle, one of our sassiest and most outspoken members)."

Do you know you are the only one I have seen be honest about this. Every other bunker person who has said anything about this group swears that group was about pasta and even included recipes? Sad thing I really do love pasta and that was the first group I had seen about it or so I thought at first.

To Kiki de Montparnasse:

It's been said that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. I highly recommend that you review the excerpt below and tell the class where the obvious mistakes are.

"...I actually have very little clue as to the minutiae of this whingefest..."

To Janedoe:

Psh! I guess you got me. Oh, you so got me. You got me good. Yeah. Now punish me hard.

I've learned never to pay much attention to quotes surrounded by or containing ellipses, especially if I said it. Though yes, it was my fault for not filling in that statement with AND BY THAT I MEAN I DON'T KNOW WHY ALL YOU BATSHIT REACTIONARIES ARE OFFENDED BY DEFAULT, and I truly regret the error. I thought it was pretty self-evident.

Now let me quote you selectively!

"It's been said...I highly recommend...the excerpt below."

See? Your words are all there. Thanks for the lovely thoughts.

Truly yours (because you know you want me),
KdM

Ah, another of my favorite weiners -- I mean whiners. You know, after reading this page, you have my vote for sainthood. Rarely does one come across someone of the blessed innocence of Mother Theresa, yet here were a whole 600 of you, and we all failed to understand. Certainly all our correspondence was full of the milk and honey of human kindness.

The only solace I can offer is that you, and all those other saints who were viciously and maliciously expelled from the invective-flinging fiber society, will have special seating in the Rapture section, where God Himself will be able to judge the absolute veracity of your claims.

Good luck with that. Oh, and BTW... I'm still there.

Aw, poow speschul snowfwake. Are the big owe internet meanies out to get you?

Dear MizDi,

I have a problem. A lady who claims to believe in free speech keeps taking my perfectly reasonable posts off her site, just because I am a liberal. Gosh, I have a RIGHT to free speech ANYWHERE I WANT, right? So why are you taking my posts off? It couldn't be that you recognize that troublemakers aren't wanted, could it? It couldn't be that you know, down in your heart of hearts, that the situation isn't as saintly as you present it...

Anyway, I just wanted to say that Ravelry was less fun without you there, but now that I know how to find you, life is back to wonderfully screwy.

Your friend,

Me

Wow, Sharon. If you'll notice, I haven't deleted your post. Perhaps you should think about reading through all the comments. You'd see yours right there with everyone else's. I only delete posts that are ... what do you and your cohort call it ... um, that's right ... truly "vile". You see, I prefer to leave troll posts up so people can judge for themselves whether they agree with me ... or with thee.

And, well, you can have your free speech, but just as Ravelry is "Casey & Jess's sandbox" and they get to determine the content there, this is *my* sandbox. You play nice or I ban you here.

See, if you think it's fair there, it's fair here, right?

Oh, and now that you "know how to find me", please realize I can find you right back. How's about we instead learn how to live and let live. I won't stalk you and you don't stalk me, K? I really don't need my own Deb Frisch, and I don't want to have to break out my uncle the attorney.

So, read to your heart's content ... heck, go ahead and share links with your friends ... mock me all you want ... but keep it on Ravelry - after all, it's what I've come to expect from that particular venue. Why shatter my bubble?

Roga - Nobody made you read it.

Glad You're All Gone - Then why are you here and not knitting?

And [Deleted] - Cuckoo

Kiki ~ and yet, as one who confesses to not knowing all the particulars, you continue to see the need to inject yourself into the "conversation" ... Well, I'll leave you alone to your one-sided conversation.

MizDi-
I think you misunderstood me. It's not that I don't KNOW (I mean, god, anyone can have ravelry access and not fuck it up by being insufferable, and I know how to search the internet--you guys are not half as clever as you think), it's that I DON'T GIVE THE KIND OF SHIT YOU DO. You're brats, okay? It's apparently useless for me to try and be any nicer about it. I knew the particulars long before this barrage of text came up in Google. When I said I didn't, I was mocking you. I don't agree with you. Therefore I don't understand you. Do you now understand the little word-game I've played with you?

Ah well, riverrun, past eve and adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to howth castle and environs...

shall I continue?

I think its sad that ravelry users have become trolls that search the internet and say such nasty things to people. They complain about the conservatives being jerks to them and then do the same thing back. If they did not like what others were doing to them then why do they do it back? Come on people and be consistent! If you dont like it then dont do it to someone else.

I dont know all the details into the banning. I stay away from politics and only use the message boards for fun stuff. I stayed away from politics and I am going to continue to do so. I am sorry that you were banned. I hope that you can still talk to your friends via email and other network sites.

u r kr@zee!!

Um....

MizDi, would you please email me? Thanks.
MissRach

tl;dr

Ravelry has turned ugly. TPTB are now acting like jerks, even more than before.

I am far from conservative, but I do think that you got shafted.

Thanks, Fed Up. Unfortunately, it's not just TPTB that are acting like extreme jerks. As you can see from some of the comments left here, some of their sycophants are turning downright deranged and somewhat scary. Personally, I was getting a little concerned there for a while, to the point that I stopped blogging for a while. It was making my blood pressure rise.

Personally, I'm never recommending to any other person that they go to Ravelry, or if they want to use the resources, I tell them to stay away from the *any* forum, even if they need help with something. Better they should go to their local yarn shop, where they won't get attacked for asking a simple question.

I'm never going to venture to step my virtual toe into that cesspool ever again. It's just not worth it.

I have to admit that I really liked it when I first joined. TPTB seemed so nice in the beginning, but either the stress of running Ravelry has taken its toll, or the power has gone to their heads. Either way, it stinks.

I have to admit, there were a few posts in the Bunker that I found offensive, but many of the groups have those, but it wasn't the majority. I actually agreed with your policy of deleting those posts from those who came in to start trouble rather than taking the bait and making things worse.

I do not agree with your politics, but I would never try to tell you that you could not discuss them.

I have an idea. Chill out. It's the internet.

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  • **GANDALF THE WHITE said...
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